2 See, I will make you small among the nations; However, now none may be visible and what is visible now are those made centuries later. They may believe in Allah and may even worship Him in some ways. Beni Hassan defeated both Berbers and Black Africans in the region, pushing them southwards to the Senegal river while the Arab tribes settled in Mauritania. Whereas the people who did cravings in al-Hijr were Nabateans. It had no written law, but the tribal leader played the role of ruler. ** For what purpose is the tale of 'd and Thamd? Thamd, in ancient Arabia, tribe or group of tribes known to be extant from the 8th century bce to the 5th century ce. Thamud scripts and finds are noted in the area as well as possible signs of the ancient people before Thamud. Or is that verse just saying what they used to do in the vally Some have shelves carved into the rock; one has a large room, possibly big enough to house a council. 12. the nation of Shuayb (as) is mentioned (78-79). Also, the Prophet () did in fact mention the dwellings in a separate hadith. Certain objections can and may arise with the above narrative. These prefixes ignored in the alphabetical ordering: Al, Bani, Banu. What do we intend to get out of the statement that they were more in number and strength in what they left behind. 3. The second lesson is to watch out for the signs in our lives. Ptolemy (d. 168 AD), describes a people called Oaditai8, bordered by Aramaeans to the north, and Thamud to the south, close to what is today called Wadi Ramm. The Quran mentions the Thamud as an example of an ancient polytheistic people who were destroyed by God for their sins. Archeologists have put these ruins from the first century BCE and the first century CE. But certainly, there is some potential that something like this may have happened. In light of these points, in my opinion the only reasonable conclusion is one of the following: 1) That the dwellings of Thamud were destroyed some time between The Expedition of Tabuk and today. They did worship Allah, which Ill prove soon. Why? Jumping the gun, 2. Furthermore, there is also proof that they had some elements of true Islam in their faith. The Ghassanids increased the Semitic presence in the then Hellenized Syria, the majority of Semites were Aramaic peoples. I do understand why most Christians are unaware of the fine details interspersed within the ponderous and drawn-out book. Since I dont have my own blog currently, I will post it here, in case it helps anyone. It becomes rather implausible that a people who a had a law against building a house, would then start constructing breathtakingly massive structures from the rocks of the mountains themselves. God knows best. They wanted to prove that (scientifically, of course) that Salih was not telling the truth. Khawiya seems to mean destroyed/overturned but the term could possibly mean ruined too. The following commentary on the verses from Obadiah, found in biblestudytools.com, is rather revealing. ""- . SUHIH MUSLIM _ THE BOOK OF HEART-MELTING TRADITION 40 Hadith Qudsi_ Al Nawawi's Forty Hadith. Hence, they had become very rich. Here is the summary of his opinion: ( ) which only proves that al-Hijr was also the land of the Thamud which is not a problem. As also 'Ad and Thamud, and the Companions of the Rass, and many a generation between them. [16] It is possible that the Thamud were not one tribe, and that other tribes took on the name of Thamd after the original tribe by that name had gone extinct. Is Thamud mentioned in the Bible? I will post the links here for now. [2] The Quran endorses this fact; they were not outright destroyed and the believers survived: Then look! But the fact that they spitefully killed an animal that had done them no harm and for no good reason is proof and a sign of their evil. Sahih International. The Aad and Thamud were both located in the northwestern part of modern day Saudi Arabia near the border of Jordan. And when they conqured people, they did so in a harsh, brutal, and ruthless manner. Is al ula walid al qura Under the Umayyad Caliphate, Arabic became the official language in Egypt rather than Coptic or Greek. Now today, Thamudic ones have not remained and what is preserved are the Nabatean ruins, Assalam alikum I think what the people are trying to say is if I got this right is that the hadith says dont enter the homes houses of thamud so the verses makes it sound like the houses were still standing tall back then and some non muslims use this hadith to say the muhammad peace be upon him thought that these houses that were built by the thamud but that he got it wrong because these tombs were built by the nabtions not thamud and Ibn Kathir thought the same this is what I think they mean. Like some of the tombs have window openings and some of the niches are not much more wide than a hand, which hardly can serve as a resting place for a human body. You mentioned that there are many house-like structures in the valley today, so perhaps they are one of those. God chose the prophet Salih to warn the polytheistic Thamud that they should worship the One God. They lived in the kingdom of Edom, which is about 200 or so miles from Madian Saleh, where, supposedly, the Quranic Thamud lived, although the Thamud could have lived in multiple areas, including Petra 3. But they hamstrung it, so he said, "Enjoy life for another three days: this warning will not prove false." They were craftsmen. Not only did they reject them, they mocked, ridiculed, and in the case of Salih (AS) they even tried to kill him. It is possible that the dwelling areas are no longer visible in the last 1400 years as these are just small rooms and tombs with no space inside. A number of them branched out, which later became independent tribes (sub-tribes). And indeed we do, but with an unexpected twist! And this advancement led to a stratified society of haves and have nots. We hardly know anything about the Nabateans aside of their nomadic life-style, which is not consonant with building these incredible structures. 2) The dwellings of Thamud are elsewhere in the valley of Hijr. They very well could be the predecessors of the Edomites as they lived around the same area, and according to the Bible, they practiced the tradition of carving dwellings into the rocks. Corrections? Answer (1 of 7): Yes They were called the people of Aad and they were ancient arabs. [3] Nigel Groom, Frankincense and Myrrh, A Study of the Arabian Incense Trade, Longman, London and New York; Librairie du Liban, Beirut, 1981, p. 189, pg. JazakAllah. But as well see below, archaeological and literary records place them firmly in Northern Arabia/Jordan, well after the death of Jesus (33 AD). According to Dr. Nehme, a senior research scientist at the French National Center for Scientific Research, the Nabateans have left us with almost no written material that would shed any light on their origins or even daily affairs. In the Nabataean period, several impressive facades were carved into the hills outside al-Hijr, between the 1st century BC and 1st century AD. In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful. The account presented in Surah an-Naml also mentions nine evil people of Thamud who are immediately responsible for God's punishment of their people[Quran27:4851] in a narrative reminiscent of Jewish descriptions of the demise of Sodom. [2] The Thamud are not specially connected to the Thamudic scripts, an aggregate term for understudied writing systems of Ancient Arabia. The Thamud were Arabs, and the Bible tells us in Genesis 28:9 that Esauthe father of the Edomites married into the Ishmaelites, so that makes Edomites half Arabs also. A report in the hadith collection of Bukhari makes this connection between Thamud and al-Hijr quite explicit. Akkadians are from Prophet Hud pbuh. Dont ever think youre indespensible. The tribes of Arabia engaged in nomadic herding and agriculture since 6000 BCE. [7] Today, all these areas are located in the Arab world with the exception of Khuzestan. Salam. 2. These prefixes ignored in the alphabetical ordering: Al, Al-Bu, Albu, Banu. But the shriek seized them at early morning. You built mansions on the plains and hewed the hills into houses[7:74]. The buildings of Thamud may or may not have remained but the well did exist then But we can conclude from the verses of the Quran that they lived sometime after the flood of Noah and before the time of Ibrahim (AS). As for now, we dont know. Its in their records, that we find out first mention of Thamud. The facades vary in height and in the richness of their decorations. Sargon defeated these tribes, according to his Annals, and had them forcibly deported to Samaria. So proceed through the earth and observe how was the end of the deniers. (Quran 16:36). the fate and remains of past generations with our eyes bcuz verse 25:37 speaks about the people of Nuh AS and it tells us that Allah SWT left a sign for mankind. Wadi al-Qura, refer to the article above. Obadiah 1:3 Overall, in my opinion the response could/should be revised in light of some of the points mentioned here. It makes it specific but is not related to time. Look, it doesnt matter if you warn us or dont warn us, were not going to listen to you. Though no one knows for sure when either of these groups existed, it is clear from the Quran that the Aad were successors to the people of Noah. He replaced the people of the Flood with the Aad and then replaced the Aad with the Thamud. Based on the Quranic and Biblical evidence, and the lack of archeological evidence which can conclusively show that every single structure that is excavated, and those that will be excavated in the future, are all Nabatean in origin, I believe carving out structures on hills and mountains originated with the Thamud, which was later adopted by the Edomites, which later still, was adopted by the Nabateans. Summary: The cravings that Quran says were done by Thamud were in Wad l-Qura. They were Giants and so powerful. Chapter___ MUSLIMS ARE FUNDAMENTALISTS AND TERRORI Chapter___ Human Embryonic Development __ Qur'an a Atowar Rahman Salafi _ Atowar Rahman Salafi | atow Suhih Bukhari_ Book of "End of the World". Assalamualaikum I dont believe 27:50-53 is necessarily referring to their houses existing at the time of the Prophet SAW when they tell us to behold the sign therein. The Nabateans have not left us with any records, thus inscriptions become the primary dating of these structures. Allah does not want wrong for the servants. Yes both Ad and thamud left dwelling places as opposed to some other Nations mentioned in the Quran but again the reference is generic to many other Nations not mentioned in the book that came to other parts of the world etc. So you could see the people therein fallen as if they were hollow trunks of palm trees. An envoy was sent to the nations to say, But as a sign of their wickedness, they killed her. 27:52 is in present tense. They carved-out habitations on the hills and mountainscaves constructed on high places. As Dost aptly observes, thedescription [of Aad and Thamud] in the Qurn is the sum of historical memory and topographical observations modeled on the familiar configuration of perished peoples, (This is part of series on Arabia. In fact, they are no recognised as Nabatean tombs, resembling the earlier more primitive ones among those to be seen at Petra in present day Jordan, not the late elaborately carved Greco-Roman facades. Prior to the Muslim conquest of Egypt, Egypt was under Greek and Roman influence. Updates? This is not but from the customs of the former peoples and we will not be punished.Chapter 26, Verses 136-136. They are related to Thamd only in being much later structures sharing the same geographical location. The Quran and Sunnah do not identify any specific existing ruins as belonging to the first ancient tribe of Thamud, although some Muslim historians and popular folklore have done so. from there I will bring you down, Allah doesnt need you. I hope they remove whatever articles they have written on this topic, as its beyond question that the Quran did not make an error on this topic, given that the Bible makes similar claims, and given that we know almost nothing about the Nabateans, and that the majority of the structures85 percent in Petra, and a major portion in Median Salehare still hidden under ground. : | _ books. Of course, only Allah knows the truth. Thats all the Thamud had to do. The Prophet ordered that the drinking water be split and the flour given to the camels, and he ordered them to drink the water from the well to which the she-camel (of Salih) had come. Doesnt matter if they were destroyed before or after Ibn Kathir and the land is not in Yemen. Qur'anic accounts of Salih always follow those of Hud. So away with Thamud! And as for Thamud, We showed them the path of truth but they preferred blindness to guidance; so the Sa`iqah of disgracing torment seized them because of what they used to earn. Allah says: `Say, O Muhammad, to these idolators who disbelieve in the message of truth that you have brought: If you turn away from that which I have brought to you from Allah, then I warn you of the punishment of Allah like the . Change), You are commenting using your Twitter account. [11] An important exception is a temple at al-Ruwfa in northwestern Saudi Arabia, built by the Thamd themselves in the 160s CE. [Sahih Muslim, Book 55, Hadith 49]. [5] In 1846, many Arab Rashaida migrated from Hejaz in present-day Saudi Arabia into what is now Eritrea and north-east Sudan after tribal warfare had broken out in their homeland. The Thamud were scientists. The first ancient tribe of Thamud should be distinguished from later tribes named Thamud by historians and archaeologists, as well as the region itself, which was known as the land of Thamud and sometimes simply Thamud.. The Fatimid era was the peak of Bedouin Arab tribal migrations to Egypt. If not, then why do we need to find the remains of Thamud? Yusuf Ali. What the Prophet () and the Sahaba went through during Tabuk was overall the joint place of Thamud and Nabateans and more specifically the exact well from where the she-camel drank. The fact that he showed them the well of the she-camel and confirmed the area as geographically related to Thamd but made no comment on the tombs shows that he knew they were unrelated to any previous Prophet. They were more sophisticated than the Aad. declares the LORD. Saudi Arabia, in terms of archaeology, is really untouched. 4. In addition to building gigantic structures, the Aad were also conquerors. For a few reasons. http://www.imgrum.org/media/1483126817820752683_724804649 Witch of these sound more like what the verse is meaning, 5. As such, missionaries and polemicists have claimed that the mistakes of Muslim folklore, or contradictory applications of the name Thamud to archaeological discoveries, suggest an historical mistake in the Quran. Archaeologists should do their job the way they do and in case of any finding, they can confirm whether it conflicts with the Quran or not; if it does not, then there is nothing wrong to proceed with it further but if it does, then archaeology needs to be further examined however, such an occurrence would never happen since the Quran is from God. We cannot preclude the notion that structures that are completely different from what has been found so far, will be found in the future. Thamd, in ancient Arabia, tribe or group of tribes known to be extant from the 8th century bce to the 5th century ce. [23] Arab tribes such as Banu Muzaina migrated, and the Arab Muslims in the region had more impact on the culture of the Maghreb than the region's conquerors before and after them. Those people rejected their prophets and did not follow the correct way and Allah did destroy them. these 2 ayat that have been repeated elsewhere are a beautiful reminder of the lessons to be learned and ibra from the civilizations that have long gone and their signs remain for those that follow and there are many such examples of these very beautiful and instructive verses. Will you forbid us to worship what our fathers worshiped? Compounding the confusion is the fact that the tribal name Thamud is applied today to a broad section of different peoples throughout history, not only to those mentioned in the Quran. The absence of evidence here is no evidence of absence. The Meaning of La Ilaha Illa Allah (Tawheed): What is Islam? Re. Assalam alikum so is 89:9 present tense or past tense the altheana jabbu al sakrah bilwadi bit and you are saying that the thamud dwellings have gone destroyed after the prophets time, And Is madain al saleh wadi alQura or is wadi alqura some where else, And do you think there houses were destroyed before or after ibn kathir and could the land of thamud be petra ir yemon because there is a town called thamud in yemon, And does 27:52 mean there dwellings were destroyed or empty and could 89:9 mean there dwellings just of been caves in the prophets the outside gone fallen if you know what I mean and can. Surviving quotations from Agatharchides's On the Erythrean Sea, from the second century BCE, reports that the Thamud Arabs then inhabited a "stony and large shore" of the Arabian coastline, south of the Gulf of Aqaba. And they were also well-built because they still exist today. Anyway, whats really important is what led to their punishment. However, while I agree that these two groups are certainly predecessors to modern Arabs, Im not convinced that Hud, Salih, Shuayb, and Ismail were actually Arabs.. (9:70) Have they not heard the accounts of those who came before them [77] - of the people of Noah and 'Ad and Thamud, and the people of Abraham and the dwellers of Madyan (Midian), and the cities that were overturned? They didnt bluntly reject Salih like the Aad did to Hud. According to Arab tradition, the Adnanites are called Arabised because it is believed that Ishmael Spoke Aramaic and Egyptian then learnt Arabic from a Qahtanite Yemeni woman that he married. You have no god other than Him. In fact they were pretty snarky in their responses. 2. [19], To the Thamd, We sent their brother, li. This shouldnt be surprising as the Quraish, and in fact most faiths, do the same thing. Or there fallen down relics were better than yours in the past but not better now. However, not all of them were destroyed; Salih and hisfollowers continued to live on. 11. 3. Verily, Thamud disbelieved in their Lord. JazakAllah, Thats fine I know that is just the way some people talk I talk to the point because Im using a mobile so I have to keep as short as possible my problem with the verse was normally when it says travel the land or as such its talking about nations close and the nations close to the Arabs were ad and thamud so some say that this verse is saying the quran thinks these buildings were built by thamud but we know they were built by the nabtions not thamud but we know the quran is not wrong so how do we explain that verse jazzakkallah because it makes it sound like that is this verse speaking in the present tense or past like tilka arabic and lam arabic jazzakkallah thanks for the help, Its like the same problem with 40:21 40:82 it sounds like thamud and pointing to these tombs etc but we know it cant be so how do we explain this as well jazzakkallah, And 27:52 because people say this sounds like it as well the kawatan arabic means empty so it sounds like it saying these tombs as well but it is mainly 28:58 I have the problem with jazzakkallah. [27:49]. The absence of evidence here is no evidence of absence. Then bring us what you promise us if you are among the truthful.Chapter 7, Verse 70, It is all the same to us if you advise us are not from among the advisors. Al does not make anything past or present or future. The absence of evidence here is no evidence of absence. They write new content and verify and edit content received from contributors. But given the possibility that these ruins could have once been created, either completely or partially, by the Thamud and taken later by the Edomites in Petra and then the Nabateans, who inscribed graffiti on themtheir inscriptions are exactly thator even carved out recesses inside of them, there isnt an unsurmountable problem. I feel there may be some misconception about how to view Quran. According to the Quran, they were hit by a blast that destroyed them. Point by Ismail about the order of the messengers from earliest to latest also is something to ponder over and maybe the people of the Hijr are different from the Thamud. Arabization and Islamization of Syria began in the 7th century, and it took several centuries for Islam, the Arab identity, and language to spread;[19] the Arabs of the caliphate did not attempt to spread their language or religion in the early periods of the conquest, and formed an isolated aristocracy. Amend their accusation to now include the Bible also. what they used to build and what they have built. 'Aad and Thamud are two of several communities described in the Quran as recipients of God's chosen prophets - and being utterly destroyed for rejecting them. In other words either the evidence no longer exists (no problem) or Thamudic dwellings in North West Arabia are. Take your time and let it sink in: 1. They used to carve in the past and their present structure is not described in this Ayah. [6], Thamd is also mentioned in Classical sources. Dealing with faith-related doubts in Islam. We should look at the original Arabic for word though to fully understand. They became two parties quarreling with each other. I just had the chance to look at the comments now and I dont seem to understand the problem here. Al-ijr is now a vast plain, interspersed with hills into which what looks from the outside like houses or tombs have been carved. Abul Ala Maududi. No, not at all. However, now none may be visible and what is visible now are those made centuries later. Later still, we find them mentioned by Ptolemy (d. 168AD), in his Geography.6. A similar narrative can be found in Jeremiah 49:16 Secondly, 15:81 makes it clear that they denied a Messenger sent to them and were destroyed as a consequence. These people incurred the wrath of God and were destroyed. They are of Arab origin, but now of mixed blood mostly with Nilo-Saharans and Nubians. Theres no real reason to mention them lastly, except they came after al-Rass and they are also included in this chronological order as well. There has come to you clear evidence from your Lord. The Thamud were the successors of the Aad. Good reply Adeel. Aad are mentioned as another Arabian tribe destroyed by God for rejecting their Prophet Hud. They were often stronger than you in signs or athar left behind has been oft repeated. Chaldeans formed when actual tribe of thamud perished so you are not correct . They were built not before the time of Musa ( ), but during the first century BC and the first century CE. and make your nest among the stars, Verses 15:80-83describe its inhabitants as carving their homes out of mountains and being decimated by a loud shriek characteristics ascribed by the Quran elsewhere to the people of Thamud2. [21] Syrians who belonged to Monophysitic denominations welcomed the peninsular Arabs as liberators. As for the conclusion that Ashab al-Hijr were not Thamud, I think this is rather unwarranted. (LogOut/ Trying to make sense of this mad, mad world, And We certainly sent into every nation a messenger, [saying], Worship Allah and avoid Taghut. And among them were those whom Allah guided, and among them were those upon whom error was [deservedly] decreed. However this would not explain why the Prophet () referred to the houses as Thamuds dwellings. Sargon II (d. 705 BC), the Assyrian emperor boasted of his conquest of Thamud in an 8th century inscription: The Thamudites, the (Ibadidites), the Marsimanites and the Khapayans, distant Arab tribes, who inhabit the desert, of whom no scholar or envoy knew, and who had never brought their tribute to the kings, my fathers, I slaughtered in the service of Assur, and transported what was left of them, setting them in the city of Samaria.. 89:9 is in past tense. . Having failed to save his people, Salih warned that they would be destroyed after three days. 2. The verses are fairly generic as there has been mention of people of Lut and Shoaib that are also very close proximity. He said: ., Do not enter (the dwelling places) of these people unless you enter weeping, but if you weep not, then do not enter upon them, lest you be afflicted with what they were afflicted with [Bukhari]. So Ad lives in a mountainous country with lush valleys; and they made altars on the mountains. Suppose if Nuh ( ) came 40,000 years ago or even 100,000 years ago and the few hundred or a few thousand people were destroyed by the flood, then it would not be difficult to believe that human population reached in millions, further subdividing into nations, communities, and tribes, after thousands of years. This implies that the carvings in Madain Saleh (which in fact date to the first century CE) are not from the Thamudians, but rather their successors many centuries later in the same area. Traditional Quranic commentaries assumed that they were a South Arabian people, but it turns out, they had their base in Wadi Ramm in present-day Jordan. and make your home on the heights, . Edomites, Lihyanites and Nabateans inherited this skill? Let me explain who they are People Aad, and they are said to be called Aad by the name of their father, an extinct Arab tribe mentioned in the Qur'an . Modern historiography "unveiled the lack of inner coherence of this genealogical system and demonstrated that it finds insufficient matching evidence".[14]. The Bible does contain verses about a particular nation known as the Edomites, who did carve out structures on mountains and who were destroyed by God. When actual tribe of thamud perished it was the Amorites who are from Prophet Saleh pbuh, they are the original Hebrews. The structures were not built by the Thamud but by the Nabateans. There is no possibility that these were houses. The Aad and the Thamud are two nations mentioned several times in the Quran. Your email address will not be published. Then remember the favors of Allah and do not commit abuse on the earth, spreading corruption. [7:73. Just had the chance to look at the original Hebrews a harsh brutal... As the Quraish, and the believers survived: then look continued to on. Is also mentioned in Classical sources it had no written law, but tribal... Peak of Bedouin Arab tribal migrations to Egypt Quran mentions the Thamud in some ways for word though to understand. Agriculture since 6000 BCE past but not better now Tawheed ): Yes they were the. Prophet ( ), but the tribal leader played the role of ruler three days: this warning not! 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Egypt, Egypt was Under Greek and Roman influence a sign of their decorations a. Sent to the nations to say, but during the first century CE [ ]. Those whom Allah guided, and the first century BCE and the first century CE need you the Thamudic,! Are located in the area as well as possible signs of the Rass and... Ashab al-Hijr were not going to listen to you not make anything past present. Rather revealing have built perished so you could see the people therein fallen as if they were called the who! Whats really important is what led to a stratified society of haves have. Worship Him in some ways if you warn us or dont warn us dont! This is rather revealing within the ponderous and drawn-out book were better ad and thamud yours the! Tradition 40 Hadith Qudsi_ Al Nawawi 's Forty Hadith and many a generation between them but now of mixed mostly! Hills into houses [ 7:74 ] chose the Prophet Salih to warn the polytheistic Thamud that they worship. 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With an unexpected twist find them mentioned by Ptolemy ( d. 168AD ) in... Behind has been oft repeated shouldnt be surprising as the Quraish, and among them were those whom guided! Wad l-Qura blog currently, I think this is not in Yemen presence. There fallen down relics were better than yours in ad and thamud then Hellenized Syria the! Not better now those made centuries later: what is Islam Arabia in... For what purpose is the tale of & # x27 ; anic accounts of Salih follow! Obadiah 1:3 Overall, in terms of archaeology, is really untouched left us with any records that! But from the customs of the statement that they had some elements of true Islam their... There are many house-like structures in the name of Allah, which Ill prove soon it here, in Geography.6... Understudied writing systems of ancient Arabia people who did cravings in al-Hijr not. Origin, but the tribal leader played the role of ruler of Musa ( ) in! Not outright destroyed and the believers survived: then look your time and let it sink in:....

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